2300 Reasons Why Episode 28 - Feed My Sheep Audio and Transcript

Podcast Transcript

[00:00] Narration: Do you know the Bible has more verses on money and possessions than any other topic? Actually, over 2,300. There is a deep connection between how we think, treat, and deal with money to our own spiritual lives. 2,300 Reasons Why is a podcast for you. Designed to be a biblical pursuit of money so that we have a better understanding of how it can be used to make a bigger kingdom impact. 

Join Austin Toms wealth advisor and certified financial planner as he explores biblical financial truths. Listen, as Austin interviews, pastors, professors, authors, business owners, and more as they share a deeper understanding of God's word and their personal experiences when it comes to money. And remember if Jesus spoke and taught on money so much so should we. 

[00:50] Austin: Hello everyone, wherever you are. However, you're listening. Thank you for making 2300 reasons why a part of your routine I'm your host Austin Thoms wealth advisor and I want to just take a quick second to thank Bot Radio Network For the partnership that we have that really makes this podcast possible. Being able to come to their studio and have them record it, edit it, and produce it is a great help and we just really value that partnership and are thankful for all they do. Check out their website by googling Bot Radio Network. And Fort Wayne here is one of their main locations, but they're all over the country Christian radio stations preaching God's word. 

So thank you for that. Today I am excited to bring on Dan Schilling. Dan and I got connected through a mutual friend a couple of months ago. Just really looking forward to what Dan has to share with us today. I'm going to say it's going to be a unique episode because Dan and I share this similar passion and this is what Dan does for his livelihood, for his ministry, for his life's calling. 

Currently, Dan is the founder of Feedsheep.org, founded back in 2022, which he'll spend some time talking more about that. And again, a variety of different ministries over the years. Also in a previous episode, we had interviewed the new CEO of Compass, Brian Holtz, and heard about his story and his journey and where he's at now with Compass. 

Dan was also really with between Crown another organization in Compass for almost 20 years and to which I mean, maybe he'll share a little bit more about that as well. And finally, before I bring Dan on, the first time that we actually connected over Zoom, I think we may be in Zoom for an hour. And I think I maybe said three words because and that's a good and that's a good thing. 

That's a good thing. Because Dan has a passion for God's word, has a heart towards God's kingdom, and helping disciple people to further God's kingdom through their money, wealth, and possessions. Dan, it's my privilege to bring you on today. Thanks for taking some time to join me.  

[02:49] Dan: Yeah, it's a pleasure. 

Thanks. I got to chuckle because I resemble that remark many times. I don't mean to be, but it just, when you have a passion for something or a calling. I look back at Paul. He had a calling and a passion, right? And I'm sure there are times to be like, Hey, Paul, give it a rest, man. I can't give it a rest. 

This is what I have been called to. My life was significantly transformed by Howard Dayton, the founder of Crown Financial Ministries and then Compass Finances God's Way. I'm a farm boy. I grew up in Ohio. My mom taught school. We were frugal and managed money wisely. But I was illiterate, ignorant of what the Bible said about money. 

I may have been tithing since I was five and lived on a budget and had whatever. But in terms of what the Bible has to say about it, the majority of the scriptures are not dealing with tithing and are not dealing with giving. They're actually dealing with our heart and our relationship to God and how money impacts our relationship with God. 

And so it's been a great journey. I was on staff with Compass when we brought Brian on. Brian is the CEO now at Compass and I am delighted for Compass. He's a great leader, humble, Godly man, excited for them as an organization. 

[4:03] But God, a couple of years ago, started to speak to our hearts. I wasn't planning on it. It wasn't something I thought this was going to be the next season. But as we know, there are just times when God calls us to another season of ministry and that's what he did. And so FeedSheep has been a burden really on my heart for about 20 years and it wasn't an organization. It actually was just a calling to feed sheep, to feed those who hunger and thirst for righteousness and that they want to be disciples. 

It really got started 20 years ago. We took some folks in our church through the crown Bible studies. Some of the listeners may have gone through that years ago. Very impactful. And this was when Crown was at its peak. We were in 90 countries, 150 people on staff at home office. There were probably another, oh, almost a hundred of us in the field. 

And that was just in the U. S. And then you globally, a bunch of folks. And so we were getting a lot of good feedback. And so a secretary at our church, when she went through the Bible study, she was going through a divorce. Her husband had left her. I said, how has this impacted your life? She said, honestly, if I only tell you the truth, it’s the worst thing that ever happened to me. 

Before we got divorced, I didn't ever manage money, deal with it. Her husband had done all the management of it. And she said, I thought I was just going to figure out how to take care of this. But she said, then I started to learn what God's word said. And I realized I don't know anything here. And actually, now that I know God's word, I know I'm not living. And she said, I actually feel more condemned. And I said, wow, condemned. She said, yes. She said, now I know the truth and I know I'm not living it. I need somebody else to help me walk it out. And Austin, this is where God said, Dan, you can't just help people learn the principles.  

[5:38] The goal isn't just to get people smarter. The goal is the application or obedience of putting them into practice. And so that burden got planted there again now 20 years ago. And so God just continued to lead me through this journey. 

[5:54] So now what is FeedSheep? I pull it down to three words that God's called us to help people to hear God's voice, follow his lead, and thrive as a disciple. You're not going to thrive unless you're following, you're not going to follow unless you're hearing. And I think there's three things in scripture that we clearly see that keep us from that is pride, money, and infidelity. 

Several years ago, Howard Dayton took our team through the book Humility by Andrew Murray. I can't recommend that book highly enough. It's a little small pamphlet-type book. And then obviously going through the 20 years of studying God's word around money, knowing the issues and things that are related there, which we'll talk about some today. And then obviously it doesn't take long to be in the Christian community or actually anywhere in the world to realize that these three issues are tearing lives and families apart. Pride, money, infidelity, issues. And we see how those make families, organizations, ministries, crumble because someone has a failure in those areas. That's a lot in one breath, brother. I did it again.  

[06:49] Austin: Dan, you mentioned Howard Dayton having a strong impact on your life early on. What was it at that moment in your life that you knew that this is what you needed to be doing? 

[07:00] Dan: The scripture says that a man plans his ways, but God oversteps. When my wife and I were at a point where we had been a Christian school administrator for four years and we felt, God called us to a ministry, we actually established the 501c3 ministry that we operate FeedSheep under, which is Family to Family Inc. 

In 2000 and. to and then got our 501c3 in 2003. The burden Austin really of family to family was marriage preservation. I was working at a Christian school and I was watching Christian families fall apart. And then I'd see their kids and their kids like, I don't even want to be a Christian. I'm like, wow, if your parents get here like they didn't want anything to do with the faith because they're like, yeah, I love grace, mercy, but it doesn't apply. 

And when you start looking at then what are the biggest issues that cause divorce in the family, money is by far the biggest issue. And so we were planning to incorporate these principles into our ministry. I'd grow up listening to Burkett on the radio. I had not been through a crown Bible study. But that took us to that next season, and I've always had an interest in money and finance. 

I don't know if that's probably because I'm, I'll tell some of this story later, dealing with the love of money and greed and desire for more, and why that success around that was very important to me. And coming to the revelation of God's ownership was so big. I know that sounds so duff for some people, but for me it's, wait a minute, if this is really true, I don't operate out of that mindset. 

It's mine. I earned it. I worked hard. I went to college. I, whatever. And so here we are making the majority of our decisions around a topic that really, Jesus is very clear in his warnings. You can't serve two masters. You can't have two people telling you what to do. You can't work for two people and they both tell you to show up tomorrow morning at 8 a.m. 

You're gonna have to choose one of them. And most people, when I ask them that question, say, So which one would you go to? They're like, the one that pays me more. That probably is an indication of your heart. The passion, the calling has grown over the years, but it's grown because of its impact on me. I still deal with a love of money. 

[9:03] If I'm honest, and all of my whole journey as a Christian, I have never yet Austin had one brother or sister come to me and say, Hey, be careful, man. That's like the love of money right there. Be careful. That's greed, brother. That be careful, man. That's discontentment. Paul's very clear about that. And honestly, one of the big things in the book, Your Money Counts, which I highly recommend if you even don't go to the Bible study, go back and get Howard Dayton's book, Your Money Counts. You can get it from Compass today. 

[9:25]The topic of honesty, especially in the area of finances. And I still today struggle with,  “Am I really going to be 100 percent fully honest?” And the only reason I'd be dishonest is because I don't really trust God to provide and take care of me. Not to be with my taxes. Am I really going to write down everything? Am I going to just, that's close enough. So these issues, these things in our heart. If anything, I'd say some people in the Christian space I'm in are almost condoning or applauding me for being greedy. He's driven. He wants to be something. And that season of life started what I kind of correlate to planting a seed, like an apple seed. 

[10:02] One of my heroes of life is John Chapman. AKA Johnny Appleseed. And so you're in Indiana and I'm in Ohio, Midwestern, like Johnny Appleseed. Everybody knows who Johnny Appleseed is. John Chapman. And John Chapman felt called by God to go plant these seeds and tend to them. Then he'd go around knowing that there are going to be other generations coming behind and it was going to be provision for them. 

The seeds got planted. And now I'm continuing to learn more about his word. It's continuing the application of that into my own life. 

[10:31] And what God spoke to me over the years is Dan, I didn't call you to teach people these principles, I called you to live them, and then testify out of your obedience to them. Not just to be a hearer of the word, but to do it. Don't just tell people, hey Austin, when you get struggling, you're gonna need to trust God. No, I'm not gonna trust God, cause I'm gonna save a bunch of money and have it stacked up, and when I have an issue, I'll just go back to me. Myself, my savings. I'm not gonna look to God to provide. And you can say, you should never save. Again, another topic, another time. That's not what I'm trying to argue against. I'm just trying to say the issue is my heart, it's connected to other things more than God and he says in 1st Timothy to warn those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant, which is back to the pride topic and not to put their hope and trust in wealth. 

[11:13] And so, this burden for me then has developed into what we're now working on as a part of FeedSheep's outreach, is developing actual coaching now to serve folks. Most coaching in the finance world has always been on people getting on a budget, getting out of debt, and those things, the burden that God's put on our heart for the season is really how do we help coach those who have been entrusted with more than they need, which is another term really for affluence or wealth, right? 

I have more than I need, what is God's purpose for me? And so we've actually started a new average called monetary purpose coaching. The aspect of that is how do we help people align their monetary side of life with God's purpose? Because what we don't want to see is what we see in the scriptures. Like the rich young ruler, he didn't follow Jesus because his wealth was in the way, right? 

It says he went away sad because he had great wealth. And then Jesus goes on to say something very important that most of us don't pay attention to. It's hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven, that should scare 99 percent of us. It didn't say it's hard for a poor man. It didn't say it's hard for a working class man. It said it's hard for a rich man. 

And some of you listening might say, I'm not rich, don't talk to me. And by definition in that scripture in 1 Timothy 6, Paul actually defines what's rich, having more than you need, food and clothing. It's what I need. And so beyond that is wealth. And so the danger is if you don't recognize that you are it, you won't pay attention to the warnings of scripture there talking to you and me. 

[12:37] Just because I don't feel like I'm rich doesn't mean I'm not rich. And as an American probably listening to this podcast, if you take a global perspective of wealth and what everybody makes in the world, we are by far wealthy and we've got to look at the whole council of the earth. And so the goal of our coaching is how do we come alongside people to be faithful with what they've been entrusted? If you've been entrusted with more.  

[12:53] Austin:  I appreciate you sharing that the discipling piece of it is so huge because especially when it's around these type of topics, it already doesn't get talked about enough and I think a lot of reasons why it doesn't get talked about is because there isn't the application piece – the okay now how do we do this and taking on that step and that challenge of doing that I think is an awesome and incredible thing. Just excited to continue to watch FeedSheep and see that continue to grow because it doesn't mean a whole lot if we're not obedient and not applying it into our lives. And ultimately, trying to further God's kingdom by what he's blessed us with in that regard. We'll make sure to have feedsheep.org linked to our site. Feel free listeners to check that out and all those resources that are available and even maybe different ways to connect or partner with Dan individually, with your church, whatever it might be. 

[13:44] Dan: Here's what I've seen now studying the scripture again, too, is obedience was never meant to be done alone. And sometimes in today's world of church I just watch church and I just do my own thing. Listen, we are not called to just doing it on our own by ourself. I just do my own church. I just do my own thing on my own. 

[14:00] When you look at the scripture, it's very clear. In the end of the Revelation, he's speaking to the churches of an area. So their obedience is in a community. If you guys remember the story of Akin, Joshua, God tells him not to take any of the spoils, but Akin – “Nahh, taking this stuff.” He puts it under the blankets in his tent. Joshua's, “Oh God, what are we going to do?” And he's “Hey man, I'll tell you what's wrong. Somebody didn't obey what I told you to do.” And you say, wait a minute, there's 20 somethingdudes died because of one guy's disobedience? Why didn't God just punish him? He did end up punishing him, by the way, if you know the rest of the story, but yeah. 

[14:31] Our obedience is not meant to be just done, just alone. And so the goal of what we're trying to get to is getting people what Hebrews 3 would talk about, is that we are to remind each other daily while it's still a call today, lest our hearts become hardened to sin. But if God's speaking something to me, and it doesn't violate his logos word, and I still don't do it, I didn't follow him. I didn't obey.  

[14:52] And so our LAMB methodology, this process, is training churches and leaders and ministry leaders and just people who say, hey, I want to be a sheep. I want to be what Jesus talks about in John 10. I want to be a sheep that hears his voice and follows him. So our LAMB methodology, L A M B stands for learn, apply, multiply, become. 

[15:14] So we learn how to hear his voice, whether it's a scripture, whether the Holy Spirit, whether it's through someone else, the Spirit of God speaking through them to us, and we're learning. And it's good to learn, and most of Christendom today, but it's only focused on learning. Whether pastors speak, or somebody gets a book, somebody gets whatever, and oh, that was great information, what did you do with it? 

I don't know, I just went on to the next one. I got the next book, I got the next seminar's podcast, but I never applied. So that’s A, an application. And so then we say, what's that look like? And then that multiplication isn't growth in numbers of people. The multiplication is when you put a seed in the ground, let's say an apple seed, that plant, that seed starts to multiply first, right? 

That little tree starts to grow and eventually has a little apple on it. And then that apple has to multiply or grow exponentially. So that the seed inside of it can come to maturity. And that then it can be planted and start over. So the goal is we help people learn to hear God's voice, apply that, let that multiplier grow inside of their heart, that area of obedience, so that they become. 

[16:18] What do we want them to become? We want them to become more in the image and likeness of Christ, a small Christ, to be a follower. And Jesus says, One of his last things we say in the Great Commission, go make disciples teaching them to obey. And the problem in most churches today that I've worked with, probably over a thousand and some churches in this last 20 years, I don't see that in place. I don't see any framework or system to help teach people to obey. And that's what our framework is. It's not a formula, it's a framework. And then in community, we ask each other, okay, Austin, what'd you learn on that? Okay, we went through a marriage study. God tells me to love my wife like Christ loved the church. Okay. What's application? Hey, he's actually called me to go buy my wife some flowers. Great. And so the next time we're together, Austin, if we're doing this group, if it's one on one, what do you think I'm going to ask you? Hey, did you buy your wife those flowers? And you're like, Hey brother, I'm not telling you what to do. God's the one put on your heart. 

So then you put that into practice, and then you're becoming more like Christ. You're loving your wife like Christ loves the church. I'm not here to develop all the content of the world. I just want to help those who are conveying that content, whether it's God's word or a book or a podcast, whatever, help people put into practice that content. 

[17:23] Austin: This is where we usually spend some time doing a deep dive on a verse or two as guests come on. And I know Again, this is where today's probably going to be a little bit different because of your knowledge and experience of studying this over the past 20-plus years. Take some time here just to provide that framework for us and take us down that path of scripture versus they're dealing with money, wealth, and possessions. 

[17:47] Dan: The foundation of all this comes back to Genesis 4, Cain and Abel, and God comes to these two sons of Adam, and we can deduct certain things from the story. Not every detail is laid out, but we can deduct from the story that God tells them to bring an offering, and he gives some specifics to the offering. And you say, how do you know? 

Because the specifics That Abel did. God says, hey, good job, son. You did what I was looking for. Cain didn't do the specifics, and God says to him like any good dad would say, hey, buddy, I love you, but that's not what I asked for. You say, okay, what will happen? Abel brings his best, and there's a distinction to the offering, that he brings the best. 

In the essence, this is where we start to learn what sin is. And sin's defined as me putting my ways, desires, and will, over top of God's. I don't want to do it God's way, I want to do my way over God's way. And that's why when we see the Lord's Prayer, the essence of it is, Thy kingdom come, thy will be done. I want to lay down, humble myself, and put your ways, your will, your desires above mine. 

Abel does that. Cain doesn't. And then we find out what happens. We'll love the provision more than we love the provider. And all of a sudden, our heart moves towards the savings versus the Savior. We start finding ourself in love with the wrong thing. And so Cain doesn't want to do it God's way. We see what happens. 

So do you think the sin was killing his brother? I said, no, the sin was fellowship was broken. He didn't stay under God's will and authority. You say, why did God have these two sons of Adam bring an offering? Was there any poor? No. Was there any church, parish church organization? No temple. No. Why would God practically have them do it? 

You'd say, because we, all these reasons today why we tell people to do it, but they didn't exist then. And the fundamentalness of this is that we have to understand that God knew that our heart would be moving towards stuff. And Jesus talks about it in Matthew 6. You can't love or serve two masters. 

Go to 1 Timothy 6. Then you read it first person. When I want to be rich, I fall into temptation and a snare that will trap me into many foolish and harmful desires. And essentially what it's saying is it's gonna lead me away from intimacy and fellowship with the provider. My heart will move over to the provision. 

And again, as a good father, Our Heavenly Fathers, I love you so much, son. Can you imagine? You got kids, right? Can you imagine if they really treated you like the story of the prodigal and they hate that? I really don't want to have much with you, but I'll take your money. Really? This is what this is? 

You just want my stuff? And I think, honestly, this is a problem in the church today. Nobody's confronting this. Nobody's saying, you can be tiny your whole life, but if you're still greedy, dishonest, discontent, a lover of money, a lover of pleasure, lover of self, the desire is more for you. And you have no connection to a higher calling purpose understanding that God didn't give you this so that you and your family could live a rich comfortable lifestyle. I'm not saying you gotta give everything away and live in a tent or a cardboard box. It's not that you can't ever use it for anything fun or to enjoy it. 

Like the rich young ruler, take my stuff, because this is what Jesus could say, right? He's the owner, God in the flesh. Hey, take my stuff, the stuff I entrusted to you, go sell it, give it to the poor and then come be with me. Yes. Awesome. I get the opportunity to walk with you, Jesus. Praise God. I can't wait. 

[21:03] But for those of you who know the story, Matthew 19, that's not the end of the story. And so the other warning I think we have to scripturally pay attention to is the story of the rich man and Lazarus. The only person who's named in the story is actually the poor guy, Lazarus. And the poor guy's in heaven with Abraham, the rich guy's in hell. 

Now, this is one of the most offensive teachings that Jesus stories that he ever told. It would have riled people up more than you can imagine because what he then goes on to say is that the rich man's in hell and he's a Jewish or Hebrew lineage person, but he's in hell. Now, you can't say that. It's like to me, if I said today, Hey, this born again, Christian, he's in hell. 

And this person who was a beggar on the street who didn't know Jesus is in heaven today. If I said something like that, I get them all hot, fire and mad. But this is the context of what Jesus was doing in that day. And he's getting people hot, fire and mad. And he said, here's what happened. And he's on the other side, and he's, hey, bad down here. 

And you can start to see his pride. Abraham, tell the poor guy to come get some water and put it on my tongue. Hey, man, it doesn't work that way anymore. It might have worked that way when you were on the earth because you had everything you wanted and needed, but it doesn't work that way here. And he says, at least send me back to tell my brothers and warn them. 

It doesn't work that way either, buddy. So this has been very offensive, very hurtful. People, what in the world are you saying? I say you can't say this. Because the rich people are more blessed, poor people are the problem. We see the same thing today in our churches and culture. It's poor people the problem. We need to get them on a budget or whatever and fix them. Again, I'm not vowing for poverty either, but I hope you all hear me. What I'm trying to say is that, the warning that this guy wants, is at least to go back and warn or tell my brothers, because they're essentially living the same way I am. Selfish, self-centered, all for myself, all about me. 

[22:44] And somebody needs to go back and warn them. And he says, you know what? They can read the law and the prophets. You were supposed to care for the poor, the widows, the orphans, the helpless, the homeless, and the foreigner. They don't need us to come back. They can read it for themselves. This isn't new information. They can do it. And then he says something, which is Jesus foreshadowing. He says, but if someone was raised from the dead, then they'd believe. And he says, even if someone's raised from the dead, they still won't believe. And guess what? Somebody has risen from the dead. And it was Jesus. And he was very clear in his teachings that money was going to be a problem for us, but we still don't pay attention. 

[23:14] We still keep going on our own way, selfish, self-centered, desiring greed, a wealthy lifestyle, which is really what greed is, more for me, more for myself. And no one ever deals with us, no one ever confronts us, no one ever says, “Hey, warning. Hello.” And I feel like this is part of what God's calling me to do in this season of life, to be that person waving the red flags and we're going in the wrong direction. I love the movie planes, trains, and automobiles. For those of you who like movies, when they're going down the wrong way, Hey, you're going the wrong way. How do they know where we're going? And I feel like I'm like that guy. Sometimes I'm like, Hey, you're going the wrong way. People get mad. I just want to help you. 

I don't want to see you on the wrong side of the equation. And we can look at scriptures like James 5 and he essentially says that our stuff's going to testify against us on the day of judgment. That should scare us too. The things that you were hoarding up and storing up. I don't know if that's our 401k whatever today that we have, but are those things going to get a chance at the courtroom to speak up and say, Oh yeah, he just used it for himself. 

Hey, you didn't care about anybody else. These things should alarm us as followers, especially those in America who have been entrusted with affluence. And so one of our ebooks that we're working on right now is called Affluence for Influence. It's going to be free. We're going to put it just so people like, hey, we just want you to start thinking through, God gave me affluence. 

Why? He gave it to me for influence. And if I am rich, I need to do it right because I only get one shot at this. It'll be an ebook. We'll have it on the FeedSheep platform.  

[24:37] Austin: As I've said on the podcast multiple times, scripture supports scripture, and there's a lot of cross-referencing and application there when it comes to that, especially on a topic like this. 

[24:44] Dan: And if I can mention one other scripture, Deuteronomy 8 is very clear. It tells the people why they were taken to the desert, to test your character. What was the character trait he was trying to test? Trust. Are they going to put their hope and trust in God to provide, or are they going to put their hope and trust in their wealth? 

And so they obviously were stripped of everything, right? But then when they left Egypt, they actually weren't stripped. They went with a boatload of cash, so to say. Left with the spoils of Egypt, if you know the story. But where did he take them with all those spoils? Where you can't do anything with it. 

Being a millionaire, caught in the middle of the Sahara. Great. What am I going to do with it here? And there's nothing to do. So he takes them to a place they can do nothing with it. And then he tells them, Hey, this is why I did it. And this is why the manna came every day. And if you tried to take tomorrow's manna and put it on your pillow for tomorrow, everybody could smell it. 

[25:32] Because the distrust in God as a provider is a stench in the nostrils of God. And the second part of doing it, he gives them a warning. Hey, here's, what's going to happen. You're going to leave this place and then you're going to go, you're going to build nice homes. You're going to have nice gardens. 

You're going to have everything you need. And here's the warning. Here's the problem. You're going to say to yourself. Self, look what you've done. Look at the hard work, education, and now it's all for me. In this same cycle, Austin has happened over and over, all throughout history, and it's just happening again today. 

[25:58] As I said earlier, God said to me years ago, Dan, I'm not interested in you telling people about this. I'm interested in you living it and testifying our obedience. This started for us when we first got started with Crown. Crown was a faith-based support missionary role, and I went to the training, did all this, and when I came back, I'm meeting with people, but I had a problem. 

Every time I was sitting across from someone, if I was sitting across from you, I was thinking about two things. I want to help you learn why I multiply this truth of God's Word in your life. But, I'm also thinking, when should I ask Austin for money? First time, second time, email, phone call, whatever, cause hey, I gotta raise support, and I'm like, struggling, and I felt God sent me. 

I got the solution for ya. Oh, great! What is it? Don't ask. What God was showing me is a double-minded man is unstable in all of his ways. And the double minus was, I was thinking about his kingdom, but I was also thinking about mine. And what God said to me, Matthew 6:33, You take care of my business, I'll take care of yours. 

And I remember saying to my wife, Hey, I feel like this, and I'm thinking, She's gonna be like, What, are you nuts? She stayed home, we homeschooled, had a bunch of kids at the time. We have seven boys. And she's Let's go for it. Which is not my wife's personality. And I'm like, really? She said, she goes, this is God. We're going to see him do amazing things. And if not, you give up on the whole video and get a real job. I'm like, okay, great. So here we are, 20 years later, and that's what God's called us to. And it's not always been easy. There was a year we were out of money. It's Christmas time. I have money for Christmas presents and stuff like that. My wife, what are we going to do? I'm like, look, but don't buy. And at the time to have my wife's look on her face, like we're not gonna buy our kids Christmas presents. I'm like, sure. We're not going to go into debt. We're not going to put on credit card. We just don't do it. We've lived by a fundamental. If it's God's vision, he's going to supply the provision. 

So it's either here or it isn't. And I got frustrated because that look on my wife's face was hurtful to me. And she wasn't trying to hurt me. It just hurt. And I'm like, forget this. I'm going to go ask for money. It's Christmas time. I was leading our North America organization. I'm telling all our other team to go do this, but I wasn't. 

I'm like, I'm going to do it. And I got the letters ready. I got everything going. And that morning as I was spending time in prayer, I felt like God said this to me, Danny, you can do it my way or your way, but it won't be both. Like a loving father. Sometimes you got to say, Hey buddy, it ain't going to be both ways. 

It's my way or not. And if you send out those letters, you're going to figure it out from here on out. I can't do that. I don't want to do that. I tore up the letters, threw them in the trash, and I said, if we go down, we're going to go down obeying. And Austin, hat was like the 17th of December. And so we did it. 

Said, okay, good. And we ended up having the largest month of giving we'd ever had in the history of our ministry from the 18th, 19th to the end of the year. No ask, no whatever. Just said, okay, God, we're going to obey you. And so this journey has taken us through things. That's just one of the pieces of parts of it's been a 20-year journey of doing things. 

[28:26] And some people say you're crazy. I'm not crazy. I'm just willing to obey. I want to do what God asked me to do. And when you look at the life of Paul, or you look through that whole Hebrews 11 – every one of those stories – people around them say, man, you're crazy. Dude, what? That's what faith is. You obey and you follow. 

And it doesn't always make sense. When I talk about our hear, follow, thrive kind of mantra, and I say, do you think Paul was hearing God's voice? And people say, yeah. Do you think he was following him? Yes. Do you think he was thriving? And I said, but before you answer that, remember that he was snake bitten, beaten within inches of his life, 39 lashes, shipwrecked, stoned, imprisoned for several years. 

Would you call that thriving? And if Paul was here, do you think he'd tell us he was thriving? I think he'd say yes, but it's because he was in the presence of God. He was doing what God called. He was in the center of God's will for his life. And so one of the biggest things for us was when we felt God was calling us to move to Florida. 

We had a family home, 100 years old. We lived there for 20 years. Felt God said to let it go. So we said, okay, we'll do it. And sometimes we get attached to things. They've been multi-generational, da, and family farm or whatever. And God said let it go. And it's okay, we'll sell it. So we go through the process of our selling it. 

And then we had a couple as we prayed. Who's the next steward? We had this couple in our hearts like they were the ones. And then when we were on one of our calls, I felt God asked me to ask him this question. If you had to pay cash for the house, how much could you pay? I don't know why God put down more than that. 

So I said, if you don't mind me asking, he said, we've saved a hundred grand. He said we went through the Bible study with you years ago. We've been living the principles. We have no debt. They had three young kids, one on the way, living in a condo, saving up, and I said, man, that's awesome brother. I'm thinking you're a third of the way there to get by the house. 

And that week as we were praying, it felt like God asked us this question, would you be willing to sell it to them for what they have saved? And again, awesome. This is where you say the rubber meets the road because you say, I thought that was mmmmm… mine. Like it was my house and my like, Oh, wait a minute. We committed a long time ago.  That was all God's. And now this ownership thing.  

[30:18] Again, it's easy to say that God owns it all until he asks you for the keys. And God said, it is mine, right? Yeah.  

[30:27] And so I had a friend of mine say this to me. He said, let me get this straight. One time he said, Dan, you had no savings, right? I said, no. No, not really. He said, you got no retirement. I said, no, we have emergency savings. He's yeah, you got emergency savings. You got seven kids. You don't have any college savings. And I'm not advocating this as the way to live. This is just what God is doing with us and told us to on our journey. I'm like, he said, so you got one asset. 

It's worth 300,000 and you're going to sell for a hundred. I said, yeah, he said that way. It makes me sound pretty stupid. And I said, honestly, I'm struggling. I really am struggling. Cause people can look at me and say, what are you doing? You idiot. Why would you do that? And I said, there's only one reason, because God asked me, are you willing? 

You have to say, I'm in. Because if I really trust you as who you say you are, as Jehovah Jireh, the provider, you're not asking me this to punish me. You're not asking me this because you want me to be destitute. You wanted to reveal your goodness and glory to those around you through this. And God, I want to do it. 

I want You to have this story that other people will see. You magnified. You glorified. This wasn't Dan's idea. People say, man, you were so generous. I was like, stop right there. Are you nuts? This isn't generosity. So the goal isn't to try to exalt the gift deliverer, it's the gift giver. And I told them, this isn't a gift from me, this is a gift from our Heavenly Father to you. 

He loves you, He wanted to do this for you. I didn't want to give it to you, I wanted the money. That's just the truth, right? And so we've had stories like this where God’s… Are you willing? And it's tough. I trust me, this isn't in five minutes made the decision, right? But the more that we're in step with the spirit, the more that we're willing to tune and avail ourselves to Him. 

[32:00] This is really what John 15, when he talks about the abiding or remaining, that term really is avail. We avail ourselves. I can guarantee you, Austin, even though we're doing this podcast might be important. You're at the studio and we're doing all this. And if your wife calls you three times, you will avail yourself to her, right? 

You're available. She needs you. And you're going to say, Hey, Dan. Hey guys, pause the podcast. My wife needs me now and you should, if you don't, I'm telling you should. We, she taps you at two o'clock in the morning and says, honey, you avail yourself to her. And so we avail ourself to God, whatever, however, when we avail ourself or we remain, or we abide in him, then we produce fruit. 

[32:38] We made ourself available and part of what happened when we went through that Crown Bible study years ago is we had to fill out this deed. I was like, it was not an official legal document. It was just like this deed. It said, Hey, it's all yours. Everything's yours, God. And just meant like we signed over ownership. 

We made everything available a long time ago because he's the owner and we're just a manager. And that willingness, then, has transformed our life and our journey and our willingness. And, by the way, there's another great part of the story. God provided a house for us here in Florida. The resources, it wasn't a give to get. 

I just want to make sure I don't… I sometimes tell that part of the story, because I don't want anybody to think, oh, we did this so we could get this. No, we did this because God asked us to. But it wasn't, He didn't call us to be destitute and we had to live in a bigger cardboard boxes, a family of nine.  

[33:20] Austin: Dan, as we start to wrap up here, thank you for sharing those stories and how, like you said, the rubber meets the road and what decisions are we going to make of pursuing our own path or continuing to pursue the path of Christ. 

I always like to ask our guests a way that our listeners can step outside their comfort zone when it comes to their own financial journey. And based on what you've shared, maybe this is the application piece of some things that could maybe be taken away from our talk today as we wrap up.  

[33:36] Dan: Money is not the solution to our problems. 

The distinction of the Great Commission isn't go. The better translation would say, as you go, make disciples, teaching them to obey all that I've commanded. And you say, how do we teach people how to obey? Paul would say, follow me as I follow Christ. He wasn't saying, Hey, I've got it. All right. I can guarantee you, Dan doesn't have it all right. And I know Austin, you said, I don't have it, but we're on a journey, a willingness to obey and grow in this. And when Paul was saying, join me on this journey, follow me, come alongside me, not like I'm doing it right, but follow me, come with me on this journey of obedience, I want to encourage folks, maybe three words to make them memorable. 

Examine, create. Ask. We examine our ways. Lamentations 3, 4. Examine our ways and test them. Let us return to Lord. Let us lift up our hearts and our hands to heaven and say, we have sinned and rebelled. We've not done it your way, especially in the area of money. Examine my heart, God. And then Psalms 139 talks about search me, O God, and know my heart. 

Try me and my thoughts and see if there are any wicked way in me and lead me in the way of everlasting. Am I greedy? One of the books that we're working on right now is called the 12 faces of greed. It's actually… The title is called Wipe the Mirror: Discovering the 12 Faces of Greed, and you know where I found those 12 Faces of Greed? In my mirror. And the reason why it's called Wipe the Mirror, you get out of the shower, it's real foggy, and you can't see, and you wipe it, and you're like, ooh, I need to fix myself up before I go out. And so this picture that I was seeing was this greed, and it's in me. And that came because I was willing to allow, examine my heart, God, created me a clean heart. 

When I started studying what the scripture says about greed and the outcomes, it says the greedy don't inherit the kingdom of God. I don't want to lose out on my inheritance, and I'm sure if you're listening to this podcast, you don't either. Your real kingdom inheritance, but it says you won't inherit the kingdom if you're greedy. 

Ah, that wouldn't be good. I don't want to miss out. And so the first thing we have to examine, God, is there anything in us? Would you show us? Am I loving money? I spoke at a men's conference. several years ago in Chicago. And at that time, God was dealing with me on a love of money. The fruit of it was in my life. 

And so I was teaching these guys and I said, Hey guys, I got to confess something to you today. I said, I've actually been in love with another man. The majority of my married life. And you can see these dudes in the room like, Oh no, what's this guy about to say? I said, yeah, I actually carry a picture of him in my wallet. 

And I pull out my wallet and I hold up the dollar bill. And I said, yeah, his name's George. And you can see him go, Oh, I said, here's what I want to try to tell you guys is actually, I have been loving money. And I don't like to admit it, but it's true. Because God's showing it. He's examining my heart. And here's the evidence of it. 

When my wife says, Hey, can we go do this? I don't ask God, what do you want me to do with your daughter? This one you've entrusted to me. I asked George, what should we do? And George always says, no. Hey, we're mission. We don't have enough money. Nope. Not doing it. Sorry, honey. Can't afford to do that. Or if my kids asked to do something, I don't ask God, I asked George. 

And so this relationship, this love relationship, and you say, Hey, If I told you that we're having marriage trouble because I'm in love with another man, you'd say, man, you're an idiot. Duh. But the reality is I am. I put more love and hope and desire and time and energy into my relationship. So to say with George, then I have been with the one God entrusted me or with him. 

And wondering why we have a bad relationship? That's stupid. And so that's what I was trying to say to this guy. This is me. I'm allowing God to examine my heart. And it's ugly. I hate it. I don't want it. That repentance. The scripture says that godly sorrow leads to repentance. And I realized, what am I losing? 

[37:12] What's at stake? If I love money, what's at stake? What's going to be the outcome? And examining. The second one is create. Then you say, okay God, if there is this in me, then you create. So examine, then create. Created me a clean heart. This is what we see in the scripture. Created me a clean heart, oh God. Renew right spirit within me. And then the last one is ask. We see this in John 16. We ask the Holy Spirit to lead us into truth. Starting verse 12. There's so much more I want to tell you, but you can't bear it now. When the spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. And so what I tell folks is, hey, you don't have to believe everything I say. 

You go to the scripture, you examine it for yourself. Go look at the 2300 verses, go look at them, but don't just look at them and say, Oh yeah. Okay. Allow. Okay. God examine my heart. Is there any wicked way with what you've given me? Is my heart aligned to you? This season as we want to offer this monetary purpose coaching to come alongside folks saying, I need help. 

I need someone who can guide me, come alongside me. We only take 10 clients in this. It's all we're ever going to do at one time. If it's something you're interested in, we can start that process. We want to come alongside folks and say, I want to make sure my affluence is being used for the influence that God wants to do through me. 

Again, for his glory, the goal is for me to be faithful to produce much fruit. So that question I have to ask is, are we really making disciples? Do they love their money and love their life? We talked about the end. There's going to be an increase in people who are lovers of money, lovers of pleasure, and lovers of self. 

That's what the scripture says, right? About the end times. And I think we see it. And so there's no greater opportunity for us to be propagators of God's kingdom, of his gospel. If we use what he's entrusted us, be faithful at home, love and serve and care for your wife and your children, the best you can. Love and serve your neighbors, the widows, the orphans, the poor, and the people around. Love and care for the ones that God's put in your community. You don't have to go find people on the other side of the earth to give money. And that's not saying you shouldn't give to missionaries, but we have a great opportunity to use what God's given us right where we are for his glory. 

For his good. Examine. Create. Pass on the Holy Spirit. Believe. [00:39:00]  

[00:39:12] Austin: Dan, thank you very much. I appreciate your passion and conviction for this way of life. Just continuing to guide us in that journey when it comes to what's ultimately His. Feedsheep.org – You can find out more information about pretty much everything that Dan talked about. 

Dan, thanks for your time.  

[00:39:30] Dan: It's a pleasure, brother. Thank you.